gaiman_phile (gaiman_phile) wrote in jesuswasabuddha,

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Just wondering!

This is cross-posted in buddhists, columbusdharma, hisholinessdl, interfaith_talk, allpaths, and tibetanbuddhism!

I was wondering, if you guys believe in reincarnation, . . . and this is in NO WAY meant to attack anyone, I'm just a legitimately curious person. . .What do you guys feel about the Creation? I'm just curious. I'd tried asking my friend, and she didn't know really how to answer that question. . . Thanx so much!!
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This is just my opinion but I don't think there is an afterlife. Would you honeslty want to return? My view is that reincartation was an idea invented by a powerful leader who wanted to convince the poor people to worship him and not revolt so he told them all that if they were really good they would come back as uper class citizens. Also wouldn't we remember our past lives if we were re encarnated? If not we are just doomed to repreat our actions all over again. And I don't really want to have this conversation 7 times.
Thanx. LOL I like how you put that! One part of me wants to believe in it, the other is like, "Wait a minute!" B/c I'm Christian. I don't know.
*confused* Which leader? Isnt reincarnation mentioned in ancient egyption traditions? Also Hindu traditions...

To the original poster, from what I've studied of Buddhism you arent necessarily reincarnated as human but this could vary with the branch of Buddhism. Not sure. This may be why your friend didnt know how to answer you. And lol. Its easier to post about Buddhism here than allpaths, b/c if I post about it there everyone will think I'm Buddhist. But Im not. But I was... It worked for me for a while tho. (Im Spiritualist now)
I don't know which leader. In all honesty I haven't studied re encarnation that much.
It can not vary in buddhism. As the Buddha said that there a several realms where you can be reincarnated.
The Deva realms, which are the heaven realms, you are extremely good to be sent there. the human realm, is also good.
Then you have the animal realm, the spirit realm (ghosts), demon realm and hell realm.

So becasue buddhsim is the teachings of the Buddha, i can't see how Buddhists can have different views on it.

Also, there is proof on reincarnation. Many young children actually remember past lives. The information usually fades as the person gets older. There has been years of study on it, i will put on the link.
Basically, the facts and people and people and places and times these children remember can be verifyed and often are half way across the world.

Not only that, if you have ever met a buddhist monk, you can see that these people really practice their religion. They are dedicated. They do not consume intoxicants of any sort and are therefore less likely to be led astray from the path of goodness.

But these monks, have the most blissful meditation, it is so blissful, nothing else can compare. After deep meditation if they ask themselves what is my earliest memory? Many of them remember past lives. And i don't mean a recollection. It is as clear as me knowing that i am typing this meesage.

And event eh Bhudda said that life is suffering and it is unsatisfactory. He completely understood that coming back again was terrible. That is what nibbana is (nirvana) it is the extinction of self and this only happens when all of defilements are gone, as these defilements create attachments and suffering. They are greed, lust, passion and i can't remember the rest, i am sorry.

I hope this has helped. here is the link. And type his name - Dr Ian Stevenson- into Google and heaps comes up.
uh oh, i think that i have a problem and i have to get rid of my self!

that thought-process is the entire basis of buddhism. psychotherapy to rid one of such a notion, as well as all notions.
Dear, Reincarnation is not a fundemantal of Buddhism. The Buddha didn't teach reincarnation, all that stuff about being born into different lands was incoperated into Buddhism in Tibet and Japan. And just because provoked children can remember pass lives does not prove reincarnation anymore than me hearing an explosion proves that a car blew up, and that the color of the car was red. As a Buddhist, I do not belive in physical reincarnation (only as a spiritual concept), and I believe in Creation. Some sects of Buddhism place more emphisis on creation than others. It is true, though, that most sects of Buddhism teach in reincarnationl, but certainly not all Buddhists believe in it.
I see you are trying to be patronizing. The Buddha taught rebirth. He taught about karma and the different realms that everyone is born into. I am of Theravada Buddhism and that is the only tradition left from when the one tradition split up into many after the Buddhas death.

Some people take a little bit here and there from Buddhism and say it is Buddhism. The Buddha did say that eventually Buddhism would become corrupt and deluded because of false teachers. People who think they know about Buddhism but have never read his teachings and decide to interpret it for themselves; even though they are not enlightened.
Yes, Buddha tought rebirth. Rebirth is vastly different than reincarnation. However, Gotama Buddha did not teach about different realms in which people are born into. Those things were added later. There is no tradition of Buddhism in which people follow JUST the words of Buddha, without adding to them, Theravada is no different. I have read many Buddhist texts (The Dhammapada is my favorite), Taoist texts, and some Hindu scriptures. Apparently it is you who doesn't know what they are talking about. I know nothing about Buddhism, I am only a student on the Path.

"So becasue buddhsim is the teachings of the Buddha, i can't see how Buddhists can have different views on it."

Anytime you have anything as great as the philosophies of the Buddha, people are going to have different interpretations, and different people are going to apply it differently to their lives. Buddhism shouldn't be a religion, and it's not, it combines with native religions (Tibet, China, Japan, etc) and is absorbed.
I'm sorry, but I really don't agree with you. Buddhism is a religion. I agree it is a way of life, but the only reason people don't want it to be a religion is because of all of the negativity surrounding the word religion.

You were so quick to discount the years of research spent on reincarnation as though you were there and you saw these epople provoking the children to imagine their past lives. That shows me that you are a cynic and therefore I can see no way of agreeing with you. But all the same, I hope your path in Samsara is filled with as much happiness as possible.
Disagree away! :)

"Buddhism is a religion. I agree it is a way of life, but the only reason people don't want it to be a religion is because of all of the negativity surrounding the word religion."

Not really. Anyone can practice Buddhism, regardless of their "religion". Jews, Christians, Hindus, Shintos, Jains and Muslims can and have practiced Buddhist practices and followed his teachings. If you are going to say it is a religion, I would say "which one?", Buddha never meant to start a religion, he was a teacher. If you know anything about him, you would know this (and I'm sure you already do). There are many Buddhist religions.

I wasn't discounting years of reincarnation research, I'm no scientist, and I really couldn't care less. My whole point was that it doesn't matter whether you believe in transmigration to be a Buddhist.
Which Buddhist monk taught this to you?
The Buddha himself silly. And of course, I am a big fan of Sosan, Bodidharma. Osho is a very wise man, even if he only died a few years ago. Which Buddhist monks do you like?
I mean, which monk actually talked to about this? as in directly.


April 27 2006, 09:35:29 UTC 10 years ago

It's common sense. Haven't you ever studied religion? Anyone who knows anything about Buddhism, or even the Buddha huimself knows that. Have you ever read the Dhammapada? You should. Why are we even arguing abour reincarnation anyway? it's not a fundemental Buddhist belief anyway, so it doesn't matter.
The religion I have studied is through the words of Buddhist monks, you know, the sangha? Anyone who really knows anything about Buddhism and not just what they read in books by your average person knows rebirth exists and is a fundamental of Buddhism and that there are different realms of rebirth, The Buddha even visited some of these. I have read some of the dhammaphada and it is very good.
I also noticed that you kept your cool until I asked if you had ever spoekn to a real monk before, or even heard any of their talks. You should seek them out, you will learn a lot.
with Metta.
the popular version of reincarnation was most definitely abused by the higher castes in india such as brahmins who were able to convince the lower castes that they were in that "lowly" or unfavorable condition due to misdeeds in a previous life. one of the things which siddhartha gautama objected to about the practice of hinduism.
i am something like a zen buddhist and i do not believe in my "soul" being reincarnated in another body. i feel that i am inseperably tied to my body. i am an apex of the universe (and so are you), a certain arrangement of it. to sound scholarly, here is a quotation from a textbook photocopy that i received from a college when i was visiting there, and attending a religion class that just happened to be discussing buddhism:

"The concept of anamtman, "no-atman" or "non-self" is used to reject any notion of an essential, unchanging interior entity at the center of a person. The 'atman' the Buddha rejected is the physically real and indestructible soul posited in the Upanishads and subsequent Hinduism [...] Buddhists argued that the law of impermanence, one of the three marks of existence, most certainly applies to human beings. As a result they analyzed the human 'being' as the continuously changing, interdependent relationship between the five aggregates (skandhas).
The anatman doctrine, however, presented exponents of Buddhism with the perpetual problem of explaining moral causality: how can the doctrine of karma with its emphasis on moral retribution operate without the mechanism of the soul (as in Hinduism or Christianity)? Early texts show that this question was clearly posed to Shakyamuni Buddha: if there is no soul, how can the karmic 'fruits' of any good or evil act pass into the future of this life or into a later reincarnation? The standard explanation given is that karma endures in habitual mental energies (samskaras) that are impressed in the fifth skandha, consciousness (vijnana). Although always evolving and so impermanent, vijnana endures in this life and passes over to be reincarnated in the next."

Some Buddhists don't dig Alan Watts, but, er, I do, and here is something from a lecture called "The Nature of Consciousness" which I think explains the subtlety of this idea better:

"A lot of people are afraid that when they die, they're going to be locked up in a dark room forever, and sort of undergo that. But one of the interesting things in the world is--this is a yoga, this is a realization--try and imagine what it will be like to go to sleep and never wake up. Think about that. Children think about it. It's one of the great wonders of life. What will it be like to go to sleep and never wake up? And if you think long enough about that, something will happen to you. You will find out, among other things, it will pose the next question to you. What was it like to wake up after having never gone to sleep? That was when you were born. You see, you can't have an experience of nothing; nature abhorres a vacuum. So after you're dead, the only thing that can happen is the same experience, or the same sort of experience as when you were born. In other words, we all know very well that after other people die, other people are born. And they're all you, only you can only experience it one at a time. Everybody is I, you all know you're you, and wheresoever all being exist throughout all galaxies, it doesn't make any difference. You are all of them. And when they come into being, that's you coming into being."

And, er, good god, the creation? why does that matter? we're here, right now. no, i do not believe that a god could "create" the world and not be the world.

WOW. Thank you for answering my question. The only word I can think of is WOW. I know, that's pretty lame, but I'm amazed. Seriously. That Alan Watts quote. . .I've thought about that in my lowest days, but not really concentrated on it much when I was "ok." Today, I am "ok," and I am thinking of that question. Wow.

It's truly amazing how little I really know. I thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. :)
you're welcome, i'm glad you asked such a question in so many communities. i hardly know anything about "doctrines" from the various schools of buddhism. because in the end, buddhism is about experience and not doctrines. the finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. if you want to learn more about the philosophies in buddhism, i would highly recommend alan watts. people have said that he's created his own philosophy or interpretation (anyway, what's wrong with that?) but i've found him to be a great source of understanding because he conveys the philosophies in ways that are more easily understood by westerners. because buddhism is psychotherapy, and westerners have a very different mindset about the world and themselves in general from the beginning than easterners, and thus require a different kind of psychotherapy. has a number of very good alan watts essays and interviews.
I shall look for some information on him. Thank you for that link, and thank you, again, for sharing your thoughts and personal opinions. I was always taught that the only stupid question is the one that's not asked. ;)

Talk to you later! I need to go home and take the doggie out and do my homework! Bye for now!
If you want to talk to me on yahoo, my name on there is se7ento3. Talk to you later! :)
ah sorry i dont have yahoo... i have AIM if you use that...
I do use it, but the computers don't all have it down here at the labs, so it's pretty rare if I can find one that uses yahoo and aim. lol We'll figure something out! I'm determined! buahahahah